Fuji What is a good solid bag?

[c0ldc0ne]

I had no idea there were any traditions associated with messenger bags...

Thing is, NO other manufacturer stipulates or mandates cross-body wear for their products - I know, because once ONA made that nonsensical claim I checked other manufacturers websites assiduously.

I think we may be onto something here.

I am quite confident that Ona (and possibly other manufacturers as well) do not explicitly state how to wear a messenger bag because they believe this is inherent to the concept:

A messenger bag (also called a courier bag) is a type of sack, usually made out of some kind of cloth (natural or synthetic), that is worn over one shoulder with a strap that goes across the chest resting the bag on the lower back.

Messenger bag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

or:

A large bag with a long strap, worn across the body.

messenger bag - definition of messenger bag in English | Oxford Dictionaries​

Kinda like they don't explicitly tell you to wear shoes on your feet, lest you should want to put them on your hands.

I very rarely wear a bag cross-body. It hangs from my right shoulder (I am sinistral) and I access it with my right hand. Above all, a cross-body bag looks frankly ridiculous when worn with a suit and ruins the cut.

In that case, you are definitely looking for a regular shoulder bag, not a messenger bag.

The ONA Brixton definitely had fixed partitions, something I found bizarrely and frustrating in daily use.

Then they must have redesigned the insert at some point. I only ever saw it as shown on their product page, which is with "traditional" dividers.

ONA | The Brixton - Smoke - Camera and laptop messenger bags

Ultimately, bags are a very personal thing. I freely admit I have far too many, since I struggle to get rid of them. Which I suppose says something about the Brixton which got eBayed long before ONA's indefensible defence of their product.

Amen to the subjective nature of camera bags. I have gone through quite a number of them for various reasons (one size does not fit all, evolving gear collection, different shooting style, environmental considerations, etc.) despite the extensive amount of information available.

But while their manners may have been lacking, I do not quite agree that Ona's response is indefensible.

 

[Lightmancer]

Interesting. They have changed both the bag AND the description on the website. Mine was the smoke, and the lid lining on that was the same colour and material as the bag exterior. It seems they may have learned from customer feedback. I wish I still had a copy of the original to prove the point. I'll look tomorrow to see if I still have the photos I took for eBay.

As to "messenger" bags, it never occurred to me to look up a definition, and indeed I am confident that ONA themselves were not making that distinction originally. Billingham don't tell you how to wear the Hadley Pro, neither do Barbour with the Tarras and I tend to react as you would expect when someone tells me what to do...

 

[c0ldc0ne]

As to "messenger" bags, it never occurred to me to look up a definition, and indeed I am confident that ONA themselves were not making that distinction originally. Billingham don't tell you how to wear the Hadley Pro, neither do Barbour with the Tarras and I tend to react as you would expect when someone tells me what to do...

But where did Ona tell you what to do? Quoting from your own post, they said:

that it was a bag that was designed to be worn cross-body

I don't see any issue with that statement in light of the accepted definition of a messenger bag. And from what I can tell, neither the Hadley nor the Tarras are marketed as such.

The way I see it, messenger bags are specifically targeted at those who prefer (or do not object to) wearing it cross-body and thus have properties to facilitate that usage pattern. Outfitting such a bag with a grippy strap or a shoulder pad would hinder the intended purpose.

However, no one is telling you that you can't wear a messenger bag like a regular shoulder bag. It probably will not live up to your expectations though (as you have experienced), but I personally don't see how the manufacturer is to be blamed for that.

 

[Lightmancer]

The point being it was not marketed as a cross-body bag. It was not described as a cross-body bag. At no point was there any mention in the advertising literature of the bag's unsuitability for being carried in any way other than cross-body. Indeed until I crossed swords with ONA it never occurred to me that such a stricture could possibly be spun into a "design feature". Further, it may or may not have been given a "messenger" title but I have never until this very evening met any evidence that "messenger" = "cross-body" and I would venture to suggest that I am not the only one.

I would also point out that I am far from alone in how I wear my bags. Domke even make a USPO Shoulder Pad that compensates for the slope of your shoulder and stops your bag sliding off. I have a couple of these and very good they are too. I understand that the US Postal Service employs over half a million people so I'll wager I am in good company...

 

[Begi Nabara]

I just checked my Bowery and wow! That strap is awful slippy! And the strap clips very clunky.

 

[c0ldc0ne]

The point being it was not marketed as a cross-body bag. It was not described as a cross-body bag.

But it was Bill. It was described as messenger bag, which is a cross-body design by definition. You are essentially blaming the manufacturer for your unawareness of this fact.

At no point was there any mention in the advertising literature of the bag's unsuitability for being carried in any way other than cross-body.

Because it is not unsuitable for this purpose. In fact, I frequently wear it this way. But as they say, your mileage may vary and it's certainly not ideal. And I never expected it to be.

Further, it may or may not have been given a "messenger" title but I have never until this very evening met any evidence that "messenger" = "cross-body" and I would venture to suggest that I am not the only one.

The Wikipedia article has been mentioning it since 2007. I checked.

I would also point out that I am far from alone in how I wear my bags. Domke even make a USPO Shoulder Pad that compensates for the slope of your shoulder and stops your bag sliding off. I have a couple of these and very good they are too. I understand that the US Postal Service employs over half a million people so I'll wager I am in good company...

For the record, I never questioned your god-given right or sanity for wearing your bags the way you do. I only suggested that it may not be entirely fair to discredit a manufacturer for pointing out that you have been using one of their products against the generally accepted usage pattern for which it was designed and marketed and that this could explain the issues you have been experiencing with it.

And for what it's worth, I own both Domke's USPO, as well as Billingham's shoulder pads (for a Domke F-4AF and a Hadley Pro respectively) and think they're the bees knees. In fact, I've only just returned from a trip to Italy with my Hadley and very much appreciated the comfort provided by the pad.

But for a messenger bag like the Bowery which I specifically chose for its ability to be swung around my body, a shoulder pad or a grippy strap would not work. This is something I researched upfront and as such, the bag's design came as no surprise to me.

 

[Bobby T]

These are photography bags styled after messenger bags. They are meant to be worked out of on the fly. There are times when messenger bags will be worn as shoulder bags. Which is the reason why Peak Design made one side of the strap on their EDM with grip material. If one is shooting from their gear bag while wearing it, the bag needs to be designed with working in mind.

Bill mentioned earlier, the bag he tried was form over function. As is a lot of bags these days. Which is fine if one is using the gear bag to get gear from point A to point B. Then remove the gear for shooting. This is also why companies like Think Tank Photo and Peak Design are so popular. Because they design with working from the gear bag in mind.

 

[Lightmancer]

But it was Bill. It was described as messenger bag, which is a cross-body design by definition. You are essentially blaming the manufacturer for your unawareness of this fact...

"Is" described as a messenger bag. I cannot prove it but I recall making exactly this point to the ONA people, which was what got up their noses. Their website and marketing materials have been updated.

I am "blaming" the manufacturer for their attitude when challenged, not for any ignorance on my part.

The Wikipedia article has been mentioning it since 2007. I checked.

...which is immaterial. I have been buying camera bags of one sort or another since 1988 and this was the first time that I had ever hit this draconian restriction which everyone but me seems aware of.

But for a messenger bag like the Bowery which I specifically chose for its ability to be swung around my body, a shoulder pad or a grippy strap would not work. This is something I researched upfront and as such, the bag's design came as no surprise to me.

I also tend not to buy on a whim, particularly when spending hundreds of pounds on something I intend to carry every day. Had there been any mention whatsoever of the bag only being suitable for cross-body use I would have avoided it. I read a number of reviews of the Brixton prior to purchase and bought it in the end brand new from a well-known English dealer. For what it's worth the critical reviews at the time majored on the fact that the front catches had an unfortunate propensity to drop off in use - something which, to be fair, I did not experience. As I also pointed out at the outset of this particular thread-diversion I bought the bag to use as a briefcase - in fact I explained my intended usage thus: "I bought it to use as a briefcase with a camera in it rather than a pure camera bag."

Which doesn't alter the fact that there has been a redesign since I bought mine. I looked again at the photo above. Mine had two fixed partitions and the lid liner was the same material as the exterior.

For the record, my briefcase today (my basic requirements have not changed) is a Millican Mark The Field Bag which does the job very nicely. It has a canvas webbing strap that stays put without a pad. It takes my laptop, notebook, assorted cabling, an umbrella and a Hadley Small insert very nicely. Oh, and it sits on my shoulder, not ruining my suit.

All's well that ends well, eh? Now let's return to our normal programming.

 

[c0ldc0ne]

Bill mentioned earlier, the bag he tried was form over function. As is a lot of bags these days. Which is fine if one is using the gear bag to get gear from point A to point B. Then remove the gear for shooting. This is also why companies like Think Tank Photo and Peak Design are so popular. Because they design with working from the gear bag in mind.

I use my Bowery (which is essentially a baby Brixton) as a shooting bag (as opposed to a transportation bag), so I personally don't see it as form over function. The bag is exactly what I need it to be.

But in the end, it all depends on what, where and how you shoot, as well as what you expect from your gear. That pretty much applies to everything we use for our hobby/profession. Some manufacturers try to be everything to everyone, which makes economic sense but hardly ever works as advertised. Others take a more focused approach which works very well for some, and not at all for others.

Fortunately, there's a wealth of information available at our fingertips to make an informed decision. But ultimately it all comes down to wether or not a product resonates with you while you're using it.

 

[c0ldc0ne]

"Is" described as a messenger bag. I cannot prove it but I recall making exactly this point to the ONA people, which was what got up their noses. Their website and marketing materials have been updated.

Fair enough. If the bag was not labeled as a messenger bag when you purchased it, then naturally our entire discourse is moot.

I am "blaming" the manufacturer for their attitude when challenged, not for any ignorance on my part.

I did not read their literal response, but from what you posted it does in fact seem a bit crass, especially when they really did not explicitly sell it as a messenger bag like they do now.

I also tend not to buy on a whim, particularly when spending hundreds of pounds on something I intend to carry every day. Had there been any mention whatsoever of the bag only being suitable for cross-body use I would have avoided it. I read a number of reviews of the Brixton prior to purchase and bought it in the end brand new from a well-known English dealer.

I assume that the dealer was not prepared to take the bag back, given that it did not meet the intended purpose?

Which doesn't alter the fact that there has been a redesign since I bought mine. I looked again at the photo above. Mine had two fixed partitions and the lid liner was the same material as the exterior.

Like I said, my opinion and stance in this discussion are entirely based on the bag as it is shown on Ona's website and my personal experience with the Bowery. If your bag was marketed or constructed differently, then please disregard my comments.

All's well that ends well, eh? Now let's return to our normal programming.

Yes, let's.

 

[Luke]

so I'm the only that doesn't use a camera bag?

 

[Lightmancer]

I have one or two you could borrow

 

[Britanica]

Sorry for the delay in my response here, been busy! Thank you everyone for your suggestions, I will be looking them all over.

 

[bs1946]

I've had an ONA Bowery for three years without a single issue. I also have a Domke Original F2 that is more than 25 years old and looks almost new. I got it when Domke was the company and it was his only bag. Now Tiffen owns Domke and there are a pile of bags and more quality complaints. Also have a Think Tank Retrospective 7 that I got at the beginning of last year. Very well made with excellent materials but, screeching velcro everywhere and less flexible than ONA bags.