Would You Buy This Camera?

Amin

Hall of Famer
Jul 3, 2010
Put a 24 or 28 in it and add a focus/distance scale in the manual focus and I'm there. In fact, if Sony had put any sort of distance scale in their MF display, I'd buy the RX100 - probably already would have. As is, I won't.
Every one of these wide angle, smallish sensor cameras ought to have snap focus settings like the GRD.
 

BBW

Legend
Jul 7, 2010
betwixt and between
BB
No, I would not be interested for many of the same reasons others have mentioned. I do, however, like Tilman's and Ray's suggestions.:wink: But wait, I almost have that in my X10...
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
Every one of these wide angle, smallish sensor cameras ought to have snap focus settings like the GRD.
That would certainly be nice. Or, if not, at least a reasonable set of controls like the LX3/5/7 and the X10. Actually, the LX7 looks as good as I'd want. If it carries over some features from the LX5, it'll remember the manual focus setting from the last time you used it and if you turn the camera off in a particular zoom location with a particular aperture and focus distance, it'll remember all of that when you turn it back on (although if you turn the aperture ring on the LX7 while its turned off, I'd imagine it will set to where you've turned it to rather than remember where you were). And it has a very good focus distance scale with a fairly conservative DOF scale built into it. With the separate controls for aperture and manual focus new to the LX7, that looks like a wonderful camera for zone focus. And I never had a bit of trouble setting up the X10 for zone focus either. So snap focus is a really nice shortcut, but not all that critical. But I need at LEAST a focus scale that shows you the distance you're focused at with a reasonable degree of accuracy. The DOF scales in these cameras are generally too conservative to be of much use to me, so I don't really care one way or the other about those (unless you can set your own COC). But give me an accurate focus distance and the world is my oyster. Without one, its like I have to dig 'em up and shuck 'em myself, before I can eat 'em!

-Ray
 

Steve Noel

All-Pro
Oct 5, 2010
Casey County, KY
Just give me a high quality 25mm fast lens that I can afford, (under $400.00) for the m4/3. Would want AF/MF, selectable, direct linked manual focus. Size is already right for my likes. Yeah, I know, just dreaming. Don't wake me.
 

Country Parson

Top Veteran
Apr 5, 2011
North Carolina
Dan
Nice ideas about the ideal small camera, but folks we almost have it already in the RX100! And for a Sony the controls are much improved, and I know having had the NEX5, 5N and 7. With the RX100 you can have 28mm, 35mm,50mm and 100mm. At realistic street settings (i.e f4-f8) this lens performs wonderfully, but I won't burden this thread with examples. If you want it thicker, which I don't because it is already just right for the pocket, buy the grip. So in answers to Amin's starting question, no I would not buy it because I have it already. :)
 

wt21

Hall of Famer
Aug 15, 2010
I prefer 50mm, and would pay for a 50mm compact, but I'm not sure I'd like that sensor size. But a fixed fast 50mm eq would get my attention.
 

Country Parson

Top Veteran
Apr 5, 2011
North Carolina
Dan
A PS to my comments above. Yes, I know that 50mm at f1.2 is desirable for some purposes, but I have and have had plenty of very fast lenses in my SLR system and DSLR system, but frankly the uses for these are limited, and most photographers can do very well without them. For most practical uses f3.5 (about what the RX100 is at 50mm) will do just fine. Yes I would love to have a .95 Nokton on any size sensor, but let's be practical here. While I'm there let me have a Leica monochrome, but I am trying to stay in the world where I actually live. On the other hand, some of the shots I just took over the weekend at a farmer's market (posted on the RX100 user thread) I would have missed with a Leica. The Sony is a quick response camera. Ok, sorry Amin if these remarks are taking us off topic. I will shut-up.
 
Nov 11, 2011
Milwaukee, WI USA
Luke
Dan, no one that posts here regularly would tell you to shut up. But I definitely think everyone values different aspects of the camera differently. And that's what makes the discussions lively. This Sony is REALLY getting the job done for a lot of people. What could make it better (for some) would be the ability to control the DOF (which is a strike against any small sensor camera).

Some are willing to work with a larger camera to have it. Other are not. Everyone is right when answering the questions for themselves.

The sensor technology is getting closer to the point where IQ is no longer tied to the size of the sensor (we're still a LONG ways off for pixel peepers), but as your farmers market photos show.....the results are more than good enough for most sane people. So then what become the other criteria for judging a camera? Speed, ergonomics, looks, feel, ability to control DOF, art filters (:biggrin:), features, etc.

I look forward to how future cameras vary in response to photographers needs now that the IQ stuff is going to become less and less important (relative to digital camera discussions from 3 years ago).
 

bartjeej

Hall of Famer
Nov 12, 2010
bart
hmm I'm in the 35mm or wider camp too (and at f/1.2, that'd still have similar DOF capabilities to the Panasonic 20/1.7), but like others have commented, it's also the UI that can still be improved. And my favorite pet peeve, making it rugged would set it apart from its competition too.
 

Boid

All-Pro
Dec 15, 2011
Bangalore, India
Rajiv
So... it's decided then. We hound Sony executives till they put a wide fast lens on the RX100 and then buy all 4 cameras they end up making.
 

Andrewteee

All-Pro
Jul 8, 2010
There may be tradeoffs to reach f/1.2 in such a camera. I would be more than happy with a 50mm f/2 camera as you propose Amin. I'll buy the prototype :biggrin:

While you're at it make it a B&W sensor... :eek:

Somehow I see the world best in 50mms.
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
I'm not all that hot for f1.2. I don't look at faster lenses in small sensor cameras (even larger small sensors!) as a means to narrow DOF - they're always gonna come in waaaaay behind m43, which is gonna come in somewhat behind APS, which is gonna come in substantially behind full frame. If I want narrow DOF (which I rarely do) I'll look elsewhere for it - my Fuji X-Pro 35mm is as narrow as I'd ever want and the 18mm f2.0 does quite well also. I look at the faster lenses more for the ability to do more with less light. Better high ISO sensors can get me to the same place. Which is why if the UI was more to my liking (note - I didn't say BETTER, just more to my liking), I'd be OK with the RX100. What it lacks in fast glass as it moves up through the zoom range, it seems to make up with high ISO capabilities. Jeez, decent 3200 in a compact - this is getting ridiculous! The other approach is the LX7, which has a smaller sensor and I'd bet won't handle 3200 worth a damn, but it has a lens that lets in light from f1.4-2.3. Two ways to skin the same cat. But I don't expect much in the way of narrow DOF from the LX7 at f1.4.

-Ray
 

krugorg

All-Pro
Sep 26, 2011
Minnesota USA
Kyle Krug
We almost have that camera already... the Pentax Q.

This is now my wife's take-everywhere cam. I think it works well for her as 90% of her shots are candids with family and friends. The 50mm FoV seems to be a good fit for her (width vs distortion).

What is kind of interesting to me with the Q, is how it seems to mostly run wide open (f1.9) and stay down in low ISO ranges, even indoors without the flash. The lens is plenty sharp wide open and, of course, the DoF is adequate to get a small group all in focus (more important for her than a bokeh machine).

So, yes, if there was something that offered better performance in the same size package, I think it would be a good, long-term, upgrade for my wife's Q.
 

Amin

Hall of Famer
Jul 3, 2010
Nice ideas about the ideal small camera, but folks we almost have it already in the RX100! And for a Sony the controls are much improved, and I know having had the NEX5, 5N and 7. With the RX100 you can have 28mm, 35mm,50mm and 100mm.
I wish there were a menu setting to fix the focal length at 35mm equivalent or 50mm equivalent and render the zoom toggle inactive. That way I could have a 35mm prime one week and a 50mm prime the next.

When there's a functional zoom toggle button and no mechanically-linked zoom, I end up staying at the wide end. I'm just defective that way, and since I can't return myself to B&H, I need to find cameras and lenses that will work with me.
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
I wish there were a menu setting to fix the focal length at 35mm equivalent or 50mm equivalent and render the zoom toggle inactive. That way I could have a 35mm prime one week and a 50mm prime the next.

When there's a functional zoom toggle button and no mechanically-linked zoom, I end up staying at the wide end. I'm just defective that way, and since I can't return myself to B&H, I need to find cameras and lenses that will work with me.
Have you tried? B&H is REALLY liberal about returns! :biggrin:

I'd be happy enough with just a step zoom, even if it wasn't lockable - always worked well enough for me on the LX series. And for zone focus, I almost always do that at 28mm anyway, so if that's the wide end, I don't need anything to lock it in. Just some sort of decent distance scale I'd BE there!

-Ray
 

Andrewteee

All-Pro
Jul 8, 2010
I'd be happy enough with just a step zoom, even if it wasn't lockable - always worked well enough for me on the LX series. And for zone focus, I almost always do that at 28mm anyway, so if that's the wide end, I don't need anything to lock it in. Just some sort of decent distance scale I'd BE there!
Some things should just be standard on new cameras, such as step zoom on power zoom cameras and focus peaking. Don't know to what extent patents play in the adoption of such technologies, though.

Has anyone compared the RX-100 to a Ricoh GRD?
 
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Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
Some things should just be standard on new cameras, such as step zoom on power zoom cameras and focus peaking. Don't know to what extent patents play in the adoption of such technologies, though.

Has anyone compared the RX-100 to a Ricoh GRD?
Mentally I have...

Sony wins on pure IQ (resolution, high ISO, etc).

GRD3/4 win on zone/snap focus, which Sony doesn't have.

Sony wins on focus peaking, which Ricoh doesn't have.

Neither one of them have step zoom, but Sony has zoom.

GRD probably wins on lens sharpness across the frame, but its got a MUCH easier job to do, being specifically mated to the sensor and there's no zoom to worry about.

What else???

-Ray
 

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