Fuji X-T10 firmware update wishlist

Specific to this bit:

"2. I’m not saying they should REMOVE those big knobs. Obviously there are people like you that like it this way. I’m talking about ADDING an alternative option. All you need to do is right[sic] a code that will remove the restrictions. Can be done in couple of days of programming."

...I think there's something you're missing, and I think you're missing it because you're only using the 18-55. When you pop on one of the primes (remember those lenses that you cite as the only reason you're sticking with Fuji?), you've now got a marked aperture ring. That means at one end, there's an A, and then of course all the major stops down to fully open. So to add your envisioned alternative option, the user would have to first Move The Aperture Ring To A, and then be able to adjust the aperture via a tiny unmarked wheel on the body. Sure, if the lens were always in A, then it would be a 1-step process, but if not, then the wheel would do nothing until you first rotated the ap ring... and at that point, why did they put a marked aperture ring on it? Same goes for shutter speed. You've got to move a dial to A, and then ... rotate a wheel?

So it goes back to Fuji's whole design ethos. You're not really on board with that design ethos, which is totally ok, but the more you fight and question the ethos, the less happy you're going to be. You want Fuji jpgs and Fuji glass choices on a Sony a6000. That doesn't exist today. Nobody here cares what you like, they're all just happy to converse and view pictures. It's not personal. But they do know a mismatch when they hear it.
You clearly didn't read my comments. First of all I've never said I liked primes- I hate primes and only use zoom lenses. And second of all all I'm asking is the ability to use a rear dial IN ADDITION to the aperture ring, NOT INSTEAD. And don't give me this nonsense about "Fuji's whole design ethos"- Fuji have this option enabled when you use some of their other lenses (for example 27mm prime and 50-230mm zoom). When you attach those lenses the only way to control the aperture is to turn that back dial and the whole Fuji's design ethos suddenly disappears. Puf..
And apparently I'm not the only one complaining about this: Aperture ring on lenses: Fujifilm X System / SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
 
The reason that the back dial controls the aperture on the 27mm, 16-50mm, and 50-230mm is due to those lenses not having aperture rings. The 27mm does not have it due to being too small. The other two lenses due to them being XC lenses instead of XF. In the Fuji design ethos, the aperture ring is a premium feature on their higher end XF line of lenses.
 

flysurfer

Hall of Famer
1. Aperture control. While some people think the lens aperture control ring is a “cool” and “retro” kind of thing I find it annoying. It’s hard to find, it’s too close to an aperture control switch on a lens and too close to a zoom ring. But what really bothers me is that Fuji doesn’t allow aperture to be controlled by a dial on the camera body and forces you to use the ring. It makes it impossible to use the camera one handed or to adjust the aperture while zooming. I don’t understand why the Fuji chose to limit us to a ring only. After all it’s not a mechanical aperture ring. It’s just a gimmick!

2. Shutter control. The shutter dial has 17 clicks on it. However, only 1 of them (T) will allow you a full range of shutter speed adjustments using a front dial. Others will limit you to couple of stops up or down and that’s it. Again, my question is why? Why do I need to struggle to find that one magic T click to be able to gain full control of the shutter speed? It’s especially annoying when you want to capture a scene that changes quickly. So I would like to be able to control the shutter speed from a front dial regardless of the position of a top Shutter Dial.

3. Focus check. It’s a great feature but the Fuji’s implementation is awful. After the image is magnified to allow the focus check there is no way to return back to a normal view. You can’t recompose and shoot so you’re stuck. On my Sony NEX-6 the image will return to a normal full view after being magnified for a second or two of inactivity so you know exactly how your composition looks like with your focus locked in a desired position. Again, something that can be easily fixed with the firmware update. Also it would be nice if Fuji allows us to use it with more than one autofocus modes (currently available in Single Point mode only) and also use it in Auto mode.

4. Auto mode. Why are we limited to a JPEG only? Why can’t we shoot RAW in Auto mode? Sony does it, why not Fuji?

5. Bracketing. Most of today’s cameras allow you to bracket 2,3 or even 5 EV to create a high quality HDR image. The maximum allowed on X-T10 is 1 EV which is useless. I’m not sure if this can be fixed by a firmware update, but if it can it would make the camera much more HDR friendly.

1. That would be a nice option for some users. The corresponding menu option is already there (for ringless lenses), it's just currently disabled when the lens has its own aperture ring. I'd like Fuji to add this option of controlling the aperture and the shutter speed with two different command dials. It can be useful for sports an action photography, when your left hand is busy holding or zooming heavy lenses. Maybe the X-T2 will get it, if people ask for it. But they usually don't, they never write to Fuji, they only complain in forums, which sadly is a waste of time and space.

2. That was resolved by expanding T mode. I (and probably others) asked for this when the X-T1 was released, and Fuji complied in the X-T10. Other models got expanded T mode via firmware updates. There will be no additional changes. We are pretty happy with setting the camera to T mode and forget about the shutter dial.

3. That's not an issue. In MF mode, simply press the rear command dial to activate/deactivate the magnifier (and rotate it to change magnification). In AF+MF with focus check on, firmware 1.10 brought the same functionality to the rear command dial, as was promised in my book.

4. That's because Fuji has a built-in RAW converter (Sony hasn't) which would complicate things if SR+, scene modes and Advanced Filters would produce RAWs. Some of these settings affect the actual exposure, producing overexposed or underexposed RAWs that would look bad w/o the actual JPEG effect. Since these modes are meant for beginners, it could be quite confusing, as customers would wonder "where's my nice high-key image"? So this is a conscious choice which I talked about with product planners.

5. Fuji added ±2 EV in the X-Pro2, so there's hope that ±5 EV will be available in 2020. By 2025, Fuji might even expand the number of bracketed shots beyond three. If we are lucky. Very lucky.
 
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The reason that the back dial controls the aperture on the 27mm, 16-50mm, and 50-230mm is due to those lenses not having aperture rings. The 27mm does not have it due to being too small. The other two lenses due to them being XC lenses instead of XF. In the Fuji design ethos, the aperture ring is a premium feature on their higher end XF line of lenses.
The aperture ring on 18-55 is NOT AN APERTURE RING. It's an electronic dial which was put on a lens. It's fake. It creates inconsistent shooting experience when you're using different lenses. Imagine if every time you change the tires in your car to a different brand your car would also change its transmission from auto to a stick shift. How would you like that?
 
1. That would be a nice option for some users. The corresponding menu option is already there (for ringless lenses), it's just currently disabled when the lens has its own aperture ring. I'd like Fuji to add this option of controlling the aperture and the shutter speed with two different command dials. It can be useful for sports an action photography, when your left hand is busy holding or zooming heavy lenses. Maybe the X-T2 will get it, if people ask for it. But they usually don't, they never write to Fuji, they only complain in forums, which sadly is a waste of time and space.

2. That was resolved by expanding T mode. I (and probably others) asked for this when the X-T1 was released, and Fuji complied in the X-T10. Other models got expanded T mode via firmware updates. There will be no additional changes. We are pretty happy with setting the camera to T mode and forget about the shutter dial.

3. That's not an issue. In MF mode, simply press the rear command dial to activate/deactivate the magnifier (and rotate it to change magnification). In AF+MF with focus check on, firmware 1.10 brought the same functionality to the rear command dial, as was promised in my book.

4. That's because Fuji has a built-in RAW converter (Sony hasn't) which would complicate things if SR+, scene modes and Advanced Filters would produce RAWs. Some of these settings affect the actual exposure, producing overexposed or underexposed RAWs that would look bad w/o the actual JPEG effect. Since these modes are meant for beginners, it could be quite confusing, as customers would wonder "where's my nice high-key image"? So this is a conscious choice which I talked about with product planners.

5. Fuji added ±2 EV in the X-Pro2, so there's hope that ±5 EV will be available in 2020. By 2025, Fuji might even expand the number of bracketed shots beyond three. If we are lucky. Very lucky.

I appreciate your input and also want to thank you for the great book. I bought it even before my X-T10 arrived and learned a lot from.
To address some of your points:

1. I agree with the idea that we need to write Fuji directly, I just don't know who to write to. I would think expert like you have more influence over the Fuji folks or may provide us with information regarding who do we contact with these issues and suggestions.

2. They didn't go far enough. Just one more step...

3. Just incredibly stupid implementation of a good feature. See, after you fine tune the focus you don't want to move or shake you camera at all because guess what: you're gonna loose the fine tuning adjustments the second your camera moves. By pressing the rear dial again that's exactly what you do- you move your camera and you lose your adjustment. In addition when you press the rear dial while you shutter button is half way pressed in 90% of the time you going to trigger that shutter and there's hardly anything you can do about it.

4. Every camera (including Sony) has a built in RAW converter, otherwise you wouldn't see anything on your LCD screen when you shooting RAW (and you're talking about it in you book). The JPEG file in Auto mode shows all applied settings while RAW file will remain on a disk untouched. Other cameras have it and there's no reason for Fuji not to have the same option.

5. By 2025 Sony will produce a sensor with ±50 EV so we won't need an HDR bracketing anymore :)

To conclude, I love the quality of the images produced by this camera, I just wish Fuji would design their products in a more sensible way. The way it is now it just feels half baked to me.
Thank you again for a great book!
 

Lazydog1

Regular
Location
Warrington, UK
Real Name
David Lazzarich
I feel for the OP....what a heartwarming welcome to the forum.
Let's be clear - I have been a user of Fuji cameras since about 2003.
I have seen the product line improve and I am glad that I have followed them on this journey.
I do love my Fuji 'magic making instruments' but they are not perfect.
It seems that the responding commentators in this forum think that the current Fuji products are beyond reproach.
Any suggestion that the Fuji product line can be improved is seen as heathen-speak!
Well, sorry, but I too, would like to be able to control the aperture via the front dial of my X-T1 & X-T10.

It's simple - If Fuji do not listen to their customers they will lose them to other manufacturers.

Now let's play nicely with the new guys - myself included.
 

Lightmancer

Legend
Location
Sunny Frimley
Real Name
Bill Palmer
Another insightful interview with Fuji execs. Again, I am posting it here because I believe that it informs this debate.
Going Pro: We interview Fujifilm execs in Tokyo Fuji has a very good track record of consulting with and listening to their users and giving them what they want through firmware upgrades and hardware iterations.

Now.

[Dons moderator hat]

This thread is not going well. Some suggestions have been made. Views and advice have been offered, in good faith, by a number of contributors, based upon their experience of using, and dealing with Fuji.

There is a difference between dialogue and discord and that line is being crossed. Some of the language in use is unduly hyperbolic and inflammatory. There is no need to SHOUT to make a point. Let's be clear. Nobody here is an idiot. Everybody has the right to an opinion, and to express that opinion without their contribution being belittled, scoffed at or being made to feel humiliated, alienated or put down.

Anyone in doubt as to what constitutes appropriate interaction may consult the TOS.

Nobody comes here for conflict. If they do they are a) in the wrong place and b) not going to last long.

If the tone and tenor of this thread does not improve, it will be closed.

I trust I am pellucidly clear.

Thank you.
 
"Everybody has the right to an opinion, and to express that opinion without their contribution being belittled, scoffed at or being made to feel humiliated, alienated or put down." Well said. Funny thing- this is exactly how I was treated by some people in this forum just for suggesting there 's some room for improvements. I feel some people took my criticism toward Fuji very personally and started bashing me for no good reason. Some even tried to patronize me:"you may need to think twice about whether Fuji is for you". But I guess the condescending tone is only a moderator's prerogative.
Just because someone criticizes the product doesn't mean he or she hates it. The purpose of this post was to draw an attention of Fuji's folks and to make them think about different options for improvement. Lazydog1 have said it the best :"It's simple - If Fuji do not listen to their customers they will lose them to other manufacturers." It's also true for this forum. If you keep bashing people who disagree this forum will quickly became irrelevant. Lightmancer, you can definitely throw me out of this forum but it will only prove my point about intolerance to other people's views and ideas.
 

KillRamsey

Hall of Famer
Location
Hood River, OR
Real Name
Kyle
For my part, I don't fault you for wanting anything new / different on your camera. And I really thought about what you're suggesting - even if I don't think I'd use it, I'm not just automatically tossing it out, I promise. I'm listening, I'm paying attention, and I'm only responding in ways I think are helpful for discussion (as opposed to personal). You've got to be able to let people say "ok cool, but I don't agree on this one point" without accusing them of not reading your post. That's hyperbole. Hyperbole is what gets you booted. Hyperbole isn't discussion, it's an online shouting match, which .... ain't for me. :) Back to business...

Fuji made compromises on the zooms with variable max apertures. They decided to give them (at least the XF ones, but not the cheaper XC line) an unmarked "aperture ring," which yes is electronic, as are they all. The whole setup of controls makes more sense with a prime with marked aperture ring. I would have no problem if they enabled the A setting on the ring to allow you to wheel through apertures via the front dial. It wouldn't affect me in any way - if it makes some people happy, awesome. I just can't picture how they would actually do it, functionally. That might be my problem - limited imagination. But if I have the ap ring in Auto on a prime, theoretically I've told the camera "you're driving aperture." So then I'd have to start wheeling the front dial, right? And that would show me the aperture on the screens, starting at one end, and I'd roll through them. Then next time the camera starts up, it looks like it's in Auto, but it isn't? it's wherever I left it via the front wheel?

Walk me through it. I want to understand.
 
For my part, I don't fault you for wanting anything new / different on your camera. And I really thought about what you're suggesting - even if I don't think I'd use it, I'm not just automatically tossing it out, I promise. I'm listening, I'm paying attention, and I'm only responding in ways I think are helpful for discussion (as opposed to personal). You've got to be able to let people say "ok cool, but I don't agree on this one point" without accusing them of not reading your post. That's hyperbole. Hyperbole is what gets you booted. Hyperbole isn't discussion, it's an online shouting match, which .... ain't for me. :) Back to business...

Fuji made compromises on the zooms with variable max apertures. They decided to give them (at least the XF ones, but not the cheaper XC line) an unmarked "aperture ring," which yes is electronic, as are they all. The whole setup of controls makes more sense with a prime with marked aperture ring. I would have no problem if they enabled the A setting on the ring to allow you to wheel through apertures via the front dial. It wouldn't affect me in any way - if it makes some people happy, awesome. I just can't picture how they would actually do it, functionally. That might be my problem - limited imagination. But if I have the ap ring in Auto on a prime, theoretically I've told the camera "you're driving aperture." So then I'd have to start wheeling the front dial, right? And that would show me the aperture on the screens, starting at one end, and I'd roll through them. Then next time the camera starts up, it looks like it's in Auto, but it isn't? it's wherever I left it via the front wheel?

Walk me through it. I want to understand.
I didn’t mean to offend anyone, I just don’t appreciate when people misquote me or trying to patronize.

As for our business: first of all the problem is not limited to variable aperture lenses. For example the 27mm f/2.8 despite being a prime XF lens doesn’t have aperture ring at all- not marked and not unmarked. Which forces you to set an aperture on a camera body. Same with the 50-230mm and 16-50mm. And then there is a 3rd variant: 18-55mm, 18-135mm and 55-200mm have a fake aperture ring. So we have 3 different type of lenses from the same manufacturer that require different type of controls and muscle memory to operate. Can’t you see the inconsistency? Let’s say you shoot landscapes with the 16mm f/1.4 but later decide to use 27mm or 18-55 for some street shots- you’re gonna have to dive into menus to find out your aperture (something you hate if I recall correctly). And if that doesn’t bother you wait until you decide to pick up that 50-230mm for some wild life or your kids playing sports photography- not only you’ll have to dive into menus but you’ll also have to switch from adjusting the aperture with you left hand on a lens to doing it with your right hand on a body. This is crazy! No other camera/lens manufacturer has such an inconsistency within one system! I understand that every new system takes time to learn, master and develop the muscle memory for and I’m willing to do that. I just want it to be consistent across that system. Assigning and aperture control to a rear or a front dial will at least provide some uniformity and stop this chaos.

Imagine each time you fill the gas at a different gas station your car would change the way it operates, let’s say from auto shift to a manual. Or from left side controls to right side controls. What would you call that? You call that CRAZY! Now when the same thing happens when you switch lenses on your camera what would you call that? You call that a Fuji ethos! Do you see the problem?

As for you question regarding the control: when you shoot in a Aperture priority mode the front will dial will only change the shutter speed, so when you turn your camera on nothing's gonna change, you'll still be in an Aperture mode which means the camera will adjust the aperture automatically according to the shutter speed selected by you. Sounds very basic to me so I probably misunderstood your question. Do you care to clarify?
 

Lightmancer

Legend
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Sunny Frimley
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Bill Palmer
Are you aware that there are different Fujinon lens ranges at different price points? First there was XF with the X-Pro1 and XE1 then with the entry point bodies (X-M1, XA1) we saw the introduction of the cheaper and more basic XC zooms. The only anomaly is the 27mm which has no aperture ring in order to keep it "pancake" sized. All the lenses that Fuji produces without aperture rings are the cheapest they make. It is a testament to the quality of even those cheapest lenses that they are often used alongside their more expensive siblings in order to round out a kit, to keep weight down or, in the case of the 50-230 and 27, because they are presently unique in the focal lengths they cover.

I see no anomaly in offering something basic at a lower price point for entry-level users who don't know any better. If more advanced users choose to "slum it" then they have to put up with some inconsistency. Sounds like a sensible ethos to me.

P.S. The aperture ring changes aperture. It is therefore not "fake". If it were for decoration only, or painted on, I could understand your use of the term but not otherwise, unless you are simply using hyperbole to provoke a negative reaction.
 

KillRamsey

Hall of Famer
Location
Hood River, OR
Real Name
Kyle
As for you question regarding the control: when you shoot in a Aperture priority mode the front will dial will only change the shutter speed, so when you turn your camera on nothing's gonna change, you'll still be in an Aperture mode which means the camera will adjust the aperture automatically according to the shutter speed selected by you. Sounds very basic to me so I probably misunderstood your question. Do you care to clarify?

In order to use the front wheel the way you're describing it, WHEN USING A MARKED AP RING ON A PRIME, (caps lock is shouting, I know, sorry, just wanting to make sure you see that part), you'd need to move the ap ring to "A," right? Otherwise you'd have an aperture ring set at, say, f4, but the front wheel would then scroll around and change it to like f2.8. So you'd sorta have to put the ap ring in A. Then you turn the camera off, walk around, pick it up again, turn it back on, and where's the aperture? The ring says "the camera is driving the aperture." The screen would say "I've been set in f2.8 and I can't move."

This matters a lot, because...

1. Most fuji lenses have marked rings.
2. Fuji is aiming their system at people who buy the primes, and it's working. Thus...
3. The most common shooting experience on Fujis is probably with a prime of one sort or another.

So this would come up constantly.
 
The aperture ring on 18-55 is NOT AN APERTURE RING. It's an electronic dial which was put on a lens. It's fake. It creates inconsistent shooting experience when you're using different lenses. Imagine if every time you change the tires in your car to a different brand your car would also change its transmission from auto to a stick shift. How would you like that?
This makes no sense. I buy Fuji lenses with aperture rings. And set the aperture the same way regardless of which lens is on the body. I see the f stop through the view finder and on the rear screen. The only difference between this and when I had my DSLR kit, is that the aperture is controlled from the lens instead of a wheel on the camera body.
 
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This makes no sense. I buy Fuji lenses with aperture rings. And set the aperture the same way regardless of which lens is on the body. I see the f stop through the view finder and on the rear screen. The only difference between this and when I had my DSLR kit, is that the aperture is controlled from the lens instead of a wheel on the camera body.
The situation I've described is an absolutely true situation. You can try those lenses by yourself and see how they work
 
Are you aware that there are different Fujinon lens ranges at different price points? First there was XF with the X-Pro1 and XE1 then with the entry point bodies (X-M1, XA1) we saw the introduction of the cheaper and more basic XC zooms. The only anomaly is the 27mm which has no aperture ring in order to keep it "pancake" sized. All the lenses that Fuji produces without aperture rings are the cheapest they make. It is a testament to the quality of even those cheapest lenses that they are often used alongside their more expensive siblings in order to round out a kit, to keep weight down or, in the case of the 50-230 and 27, because they are presently unique in the focal lengths they cover.

I see no anomaly in offering something basic at a lower price point for entry-level users who don't know any better. If more advanced users choose to "slum it" then they have to put up with some inconsistency. Sounds like a sensible ethos to me.

P.S. The aperture ring changes aperture. It is therefore not "fake". If it were for decoration only, or painted on, I could understand your use of the term but not otherwise, unless you are simply using hyperbole to provoke a negative reaction.
1. Even so called "professionals" use those cheaper lenses occasionally so I think they deserve the same shooting experience across the platform (not to mention an "entry level users" like me that "don't know any better"
2. The only true aperture ring is a mechanical one and those can only be found on the old manual lenses. All today's "aperture rings" are actually "aperture dials" that were put on a lens instead of the camera body.
3. For the thing to be called a "fake" it doesn't have to be "for decoration only". A $50 Rolex is still a fully functional watch, right? It has dials and show time thus it's not a fake if I follow your logic. But for some reason everybody call it a "fake Rolex". I'm pretty sure they're not doing it "to provoke a negative reaction" as you suggest.
 
I have shot extensively with an 18-55. There is no inconsistent shooting experience with it. Regardless of whether the aperture control is a ring on the lens or a dial on the back of the camera. And yes, it is an aperture ring. Electronic not mechanical. Just like, returning to your car analogy, my wife's Mazda6 transmission can be operated manually or as an automatic. It is all electronic. There is nothing mechanical connecting the shifter to the transmission. But it is still a shifter in both automatic and manual.

Explain to us what inconsistencies you are experiencing. That would help us to give better advice. While Fuji is good about listening to their customers and making changes, this is one I don't see happening. So maybe we can figure out a way to improve your experience since you want to keep shooting Fuji bodies for their lens selection.
 
In order to use the front wheel the way you're describing it, WHEN USING A MARKED AP RING ON A PRIME, (caps lock is shouting, I know, sorry, just wanting to make sure you see that part), you'd need to move the ap ring to "A," right? Otherwise you'd have an aperture ring set at, say, f4, but the front wheel would then scroll around and change it to like f2.8. So you'd sorta have to put the ap ring in A. Then you turn the camera off, walk around, pick it up again, turn it back on, and where's the aperture? The ring says "the camera is driving the aperture." The screen would say "I've been set in f2.8 and I can't move."

This matters a lot, because...

1. Most fuji lenses have marked rings.
2. Fuji is aiming their system at people who buy the primes, and it's working. Thus...
3. The most common shooting experience on Fujis is probably with a prime of one sort or another.

So this would come up constantly.
Oh, I see the source of confusion. You don't have to set the aperture switch on your lens to "A" in order to set an aperture. In fact by doing that you would lock yourself into the "Shutter priority mode" and the only setting you'll be able to change would be a shutter speed while the aperture would be set automatically. Just treat the dial (front or rear, doesn't matter) exactly the same way you treat the aperture ring on your lens. Just switch the aperture switch on you lens to that little sign that looks like an aperture and you are in an aperture priority mode and good to go. Now you can change your aperture from anywhere.
As for the prime lenses: not only Fuji but all other systems have more prime lenses than zoom lenses available. Not because they aiming at the people who mostly shoot with primes but simply because it's much easier to manufacture a good quality prime vs a good quality zooms (less optical elements, simpler design). BTW, 40% of all current Fuji lenses are zooms and it's a very significant number.
 

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