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Yet another EDC / casual carry / preference change thread

davidzvi

Top Veteran
Apr 18, 2014
69
Boston Burbs
The threads and posts by @mike3996 / @KillRamsey / @Bobby Tingle / @drd1135 / @MoonMind / and many others has gotten me to rethink my current collection. Sorry if this becomes a bit long and rambling.

My main camera is an E-M1 mkII with a collection of small and not so small lenses.

PL8-18mm
O12-40mm
O12-100mm
P100-300mm

P12-32m
P14mm f/2.5
O25mm f/1.8
O75mm f/1.8
O9mm BCL

I also have the GX85 and X70. I REALLY wish I could find SOMETHING that could replace them both.

Love the images out of the X70. Love the size, the feel, the handling, and the controls (this includes the tilting touch screen). But it's AF is slow and that's been an issue at times.
I had hoped the XF10 would be an updated X70. But it seems Fuji just tried to copy the Ricoh GR and in the process removed everything I liked about the X70 while not addressing any of the issues I've had with the original. Add the 24mp sensor and fix the AF would have been all I really wanted. About the only thing I like about XF10 is the replacement of the control pad with the joystick.

Don't "love" the GX85, but do like a lot about it. The size, solid feel in the hand, tilting touch screen; and the 4k photo modes have been handy at times. It's also the one I pick up when I shoot video, but that's probably more "it's video so Panasonic". The single shot AF is pretty darn quick. But I have no real attachment to it. It works well and has a lot of features but...

I had hoped Panasonic would have addressed the slow startup with the LX100 II. But no and why they didn't add a tilt screen makes no sense at all. If you compare the LX100 and GX85 you can see the tilt screen is really just taking up some of the space so it doesn't seem like the EVF is sticking out as far on the GX85. It might actually make the EVF on the LX100 less likely to catch on things. This could have been exactly what I am looking for.


What would I LOVE?
  • Manual zoom lens (Fuji X30?), but a fast AF fixed could be an option. I guess a quick on/off power zoom might be OK (is there such a thing?)
  • f/2 - f/2.8 would be fast enough
  • Reasonable close focus ability
  • Ability to use screw on filters (another thing Fuji removed from the XF10)
  • 1" or larger sensor
  • Tilting touch screen with an easy on / off (I like how Fuji has that on/off screen button)
  • Fits into something like my National Geographic NG 1153 Earth Explorer Medium Pouch. The X70 with the Gariz half case and Haoge LH-X49W ultra-thin hood easily fits as does the GX85 +12-32 or 14mm with the MegaGear half case.
I'm probably dreaming of a camera that no one will ever create.

What I'm considering:
  • LX100 II - I know :coco: - No tilt and slow start up
  • Pen F - Rather have a tilt and I'm not sure it would really be that much different than the GX85
  • X-E3 - no tilt screen and as others have mention it has a light "feel" though a half case might help. But one of the problems here is the speed and size of the Fuji pancakes. How are they on AF speed? And the 27mm is the right size, but 18mm is a better focal length for me.
Considered and pretty much ruled out:
  • X100F - no tilting or touch
  • Canon G1 X Mark III - Really not much different than my GX85 and I can put a fast prime on the GX85.
:dash2:
 

mike3996

Veteran
Apr 2, 2018
104
I'm probably dreaming of a camera that no one will ever create.
Yours are pretty specific, yes. :) I'm bummed they made such a nice camera with LX100 but made it use a power zoom of all things :doh:

If the zoom isn't a must, hold your breath and wait for Fuji's (expected) announcements in Jan/Feb 2019. Perhaps the fifth X100? Ricoh GR3 will also be coming around that time and reviewed.

Fujinon 18/2 isn't the fastest to focus; yet I didn't have any issues with its speed. It is around the same speed as the 35/1.4 which I also find decently fast to focus. You'll probably find the 18/2 slow if you find 35/1.4 slow. A wonderful lens, assuming you work around (or don't care about) its shortcomings.
 

davidzvi

Top Veteran
Apr 18, 2014
69
Boston Burbs
Based on what you are looking for, I'd try the Pen-F....especially since your "main" rig is an Olympus. Nice to have same menus, batteries, etc.
Actually the Pen F and E-M1 mkII don't use the batteries and the menus have been "refreshed".
What don't you like about the GX85?
I prefer the images out of the Fuji and Olympus over the Panasonic. I hear the GX9 has an improved image processor, so that might help there.

The only things that I truly "don't like" about the GX85 are things I don't like about all Panasonic bodies I've owned. Pressing the display button cycles through 6 different options, why can't you disable some? I could on my Nikon D70 from 2004. I like the recording information screen, why can't go from it to one other screen and back? And on that screen why can't I tap on a setting to highlight and just turn a dial to change? Olympus has had that feature with the SCP since 2010 on the E-PL1. If they could do that I'd turn off the Q-menu completely since I prefer that visual information display.

There are other little things, but those and that I like the images better from the others are my main issues. And that I just don't really feel an connection to it, which is just something that is and not really something you can explain.

Yours are pretty specific, yes. :) I'm bummed they made such a nice camera with LX100 but made it use a power zoom of all things :doh:

If the zoom isn't a must, hold your breath and wait for Fuji's (expected) announcements in Jan/Feb 2019. Perhaps the fifth X100? Ricoh GR3 will also be coming around that time and reviewed.

Fujinon 18/2 isn't the fastest to focus; yet I didn't have any issues with its speed. It is around the same speed as the 35/1.4 which I also find decently fast to focus. You'll probably find the 18/2 slow if you find 35/1.4 slow. A wonderful lens, assuming you work around (or don't care about) its shortcomings.
I'd be surprised if either the GR III or X100(?) had both a touch and tilt screen. For Size I'd be looking at the 18mm f/2 and 27mm f/2.8. I've only ever really just played very briefly with either that I can remember. And that was probably with an X-E2/s or X-T1, so I probably wasn't really impresses with the AF at the time. But they have gotten a lot better since then and @KillRamsey has given high praise to the AF on the X-E3.
 
Dec 29, 2013
124
Switzerland
Tough call - because of the feature set you look for.

However, the camera you're describing seems to be the Sony RX100 VI, except for the native screw-in filters, but there are adapters for that. I can't seem to like that camera line at all, but that doesn't mean you won't (though I have my doubts - because of speed; it's slow as molasses to start up and shut down, and the zoom isn't the fastest). Yes, I know the lens isn't as bright as previous ones, but the range is stunning, the sensor's top-notch for a 1" unit, and the size is unbeatable. Plus they finally added a touchscreen interface, though it's Sony style (incomplete, restricted and idiosyncratic). So, certainly no recommendation from me - but I'd look into it if I were you because it ticks most of the boxes you mention on your list.

Apart from the G1X III, I'm using the GX9 with the 15mm f/1.7 at the moment - that's a wonderful combo that works very, very well as an EDC, especially if I carry a bag anyway (my EDC bag is an ONA Bowery). What's more, I can throw in the 12-32mm as well for some versatility. But actually, with the Bowery, just about any of my cameras becomes an EDC ...

If you don't *need* an EVF, you could do the same (with your choice of lenses) with an Olympus E-PL9 (or the E-PL7 - that's *the* sleeper body in Olympus land). Reading through your list, the E-PL9/7 seems to fit just about every item on it (except for the implicit wish for the latest sensor generation, of course).

That said, I don't think I understand your reasons for ruling out the G1X III. Yes, it has a flip screen, not a tilty one, but that means you can fold it away if you don't want to use it. Yes, the lens is slower than others, but it's a very solid performer. But most importantly, the APS-C sensor really delivers the goods while the camera is way smaller than the GX9/GX80 even with the 12-32mm - and still smaller than the E-PL9/7 with that lens. The EVF is very usable for its size, the camera is responsive, power up and zoom operation are quick (which puts the camera head and shoulders above the LX100), and MF and "manual" zoom implementations via the lens ring are decent. I'm actually pretty sure I like the files coming from it over the ones from the Sony A7 II - yes, a FF ILC ... (that's certainly true for JPEGs - but also for RAWs in many cases). The G1X III fits into jacket pockets, no trouble. I tried that with the GX9 just yesterday and wasn't at all happy about the considerable bulge it caused.

M.
 

davidzvi

Top Veteran
Apr 18, 2014
69
Boston Burbs
Tough call - because of the feature set you look for.

However, the camera you're describing seems to be the Sony RX100 VI, except for the native screw-in filters, but there are adapters for that. I can't seem to like that camera line at all, but that doesn't mean you won't (though I have my doubts - because of speed; it's slow as molasses to start up and shut down, and the zoom isn't the fastest). Yes, I know the lens isn't as bright as previous ones, but the range is stunning, the sensor's top-notch for a 1" unit, and the size is unbeatable. Plus they finally added a touchscreen interface, though it's Sony style (incomplete, restricted and idiosyncratic). So, certainly no recommendation from me - but I'd look into it if I were you because it ticks most of the boxes you mention on your list.....
My wish list is just that, a wish. But as for the Sony? We walk the same line. And certainly not something I can see myself feeling connected to any more than shooting with my cell phone. It has the tech specs (though I would lean more to the V). Not sure why when they updated the V to the VA after the VI was released that they didn't include the touch screen.:hmmm:

......Apart from the G1X III, I'm using the GX9 with the 15mm f/1.7 at the moment - that's a wonderful combo that works very, very well as an EDC, especially if I carry a bag anyway (my EDC bag is an ONA Bowery). What's more, I can throw in the 12-32mm as well for some versatility. But actually, with the Bowery, just about any of my cameras becomes an EDC ...

If you don't *need* an EVF, you could do the same (with your choice of lenses) with an Olympus E-PL9 (or the E-PL7 - that's *the* sleeper body in Olympus land). Reading through your list, the E-PL9/7 seems to fit just about every item on it (except for the implicit wish for the latest sensor generation, of course).

That said, I don't think I understand your reasons for ruling out the G1X III. Yes, it has a flip screen, not a tilty one, but that means you can fold it away if you don't want to use it. Yes, the lens is slower than others, but it's a very solid performer. But most importantly, the APS-C sensor really delivers the goods while the camera is way smaller than the GX9/GX80 even with the 12-32mm - and still smaller than the E-PL9/7 with that lens. The EVF is very usable for its size, the camera is responsive, power up and zoom operation are quick (which puts the camera head and shoulders above the LX100), and MF and "manual" zoom implementations via the lens ring are decent. I'm actually pretty sure I like the files coming from it over the ones from the Sony A7 II - yes, a FF ILC ... (that's certainly true for JPEGs - but also for RAWs in many cases). The G1X III fits into jacket pockets, no trouble. I tried that with the GX9 just yesterday and wasn't at all happy about the considerable bulge it caused.

M.
I'll have another look at the G1X, the size is right, just not sure if it has the shooting experience I'm really looking for. I've seen several videos where reviewers comment about picking up the LX100 and are confused by not having a PASM dial. I looked at it and said "I like it".

You know the G1X isn't really that much smaller than an E-M10 mkIII with a 14mm or 12-32mm. I should probably at least look at that. As I recall it's the first E-M10 I've handled that I didn't immediately think "I'll need the grip" as I did on the mkI & II I had. And other than the original E-M5 it's the only OMD I haven't owned at one point or another. :redface:

Between the E-PL#s I think I'd probably just go to the F. The F is actually thinner than the GX85 so the size would work. While price is a consideration, the budget would cover the F even before selling off the GX85 and/or X70.
 
Dec 29, 2013
124
Switzerland
I don't think you're wrong in any way about the size comparison, but the latest 24MP APS-C sensors *are* better performers than :mu43: sensors, so I'd at least factor that in if size is comparable; I have to say that I hadn't remembered how seemingly similar the E-M10 (III) and the G1X III seem to be in body size - the E-M10 certainly appeared bigger, but I simply can't check anymore, having sold the E-M10 ... but I mostly used it with the ECG-1 grip, so *my* setup was certainly bigger.

Having said that, I personally think that an EDC doesn't have to provide ultimate IQ - I just like it to give me the best I can get from a package size, which again confirms my own choice. However, what the GX80 gave me and the GX9 now gives me is very, very satisfying, so :mu43: is at the very least sufficient, maybe all you need. The E-M10 III is a solid camera for sure (even though Olympus has taken away a couple of customisation options I was rather fond of). The PEN-F is surprisingly slick, too. What really surprises me is the X-E3, though ...

M.
 

Bruce McL

Regular
Dec 18, 2016
68
Are you using Lightroom? if so, for image likeability, I have two suggestions. For JPEG, the XEQUALS color presets are quite good.

Products Archive - XEQUALS - Learn. Create. Dominate.

Sorting through them to find one or two everyday presets is time consuming, but could be worth it.

For RAW, there's Lumariver Profile Designer.

Lumariver

This requires a 24 patch color chart and a very large investment in time. The upside is that you will have complete control of the look of RAW files from every camera you own. This software has decreased my camera brand loyalty. The look that cameras produce is no longer important to me in choosing a camera.
 

mike3996

Veteran
Apr 2, 2018
104
FWIW when I got the PEN-F and I always knew in my heart it wouldn't easily replace the Leica Q as the main camera (and a couple of weeks' usage confirmed it) I scolded myself, why didn't I take the E-P5 route. The E-P5 plus the VF4 makes for all kinds of photography.
 

davidzvi

Top Veteran
Apr 18, 2014
69
Boston Burbs
Are you using Lightroom? if so, for image likeability, I have two suggestions. For JPEG, the XEQUALS color presets are quite good.

Products Archive - XEQUALS - Learn. Create. Dominate.

Sorting through them to find one or two everyday presets is time consuming, but could be worth it.

For RAW, there's Lumariver Profile Designer.

Lumariver

This requires a 24 patch color chart and a very large investment in time. The upside is that you will have complete control of the look of RAW files from every camera you own. This software has decreased my camera brand loyalty. The look that cameras produce is no longer important to me in choosing a camera.
I seem to recall a classic chrome for Olympus, might be worth a look to see what thee is out there for the GX85, hadn't though of this.

FWIW when I got the PEN-F and I always knew in my heart it wouldn't easily replace the Leica Q as the main camera (and a couple of weeks' usage confirmed it) I scolded myself, why didn't I take the E-P5 route. The E-P5 plus the VF4 makes for all kinds of photography.
The E-P5 is another body I've owned. I did enjoy the E-P5, but... I've never owned a Leica. I'm not looking for a main camera. And while the budget isn't bad, it's not going to come close to Leica pricing unless it's a D-Lux 109 or 7. :p
 

drd1135

Zen Snapshooter
Jul 13, 2011
124
Lexington, Virginia
I don't think you're wrong in any way about the size comparison, but the latest 24MP APS-C sensors *are* better performers than :mu43: sensors, so I'd at least factor that in if size is comparable; I have to say that I hadn't remembered how seemingly similar the E-M10 (III) and the G1X III seem to be in body size - the E-M10 certainly appeared bigger, but I simply can't check anymore, having sold the E-M10 ... but I mostly used it with the ECG-1 grip, so *my* setup was certainly bigger.

Having said that, I personally think that an EDC doesn't have to provide ultimate IQ - I just like it to give me the best I can get from a package size, which again confirms my own choice. However, what the GX80 gave me and the GX9 now gives me is very, very satisfying, so :mu43: is at the very least sufficient, maybe all you need. The E-M10 III is a solid camera for sure (even though Olympus has taken away a couple of customisation options I was rather fond of). The PEN-F is surprisingly slick, too. What really surprises me is the X-E3, though ...

M.
You mean the size of the XE3?
 

davidzvi

Top Veteran
Apr 18, 2014
69
Boston Burbs
Now I need to figure out the best post SW. I have Skylum, waiting for the library mod release. But LR 6.14 is my main image processing SW.

The kit came with the 23mm, I figure I'll probably pick up the 18mm and/or the 27mm. Surprisingly the 18mm fit in my little NG 1153 Pouch. The 27mm fit easier and I'm probably keeping the X70, so I'll have to think about that.

Thinking about 15-45. I'm not a fan of power zooms, but I am a fan of wide to normal small compact zooms. So starting at 22.5mm eq is REALLY interesting. Guess I have more reading to do.
 

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